Catholics?
For a long time i have had this question and i want real catholics to answer it for me. I am a Christian and being so i pray directly to God and ask him to forgive my sins and other things. What i am wondering is why Catholics think that they have to go and repent to someone else and not just talk directly to God? I can find no passage in the Bible that tells us to do this and it makes me curious to find the motivation behind it.
It also confuses me why Catholics pray to saints. If they are dead, what good can it do? And if they can hear you from heaven, how? I mean, isnt God the only one that can hear prayers?
Just some stuff to think about i guess. if you have any answers to some of my questions it would be appreciated! thanks
Happy Holidays!
Very few of the new Christians died before most of the New Testament was written. Therefore there is little in the Bible about asking saints to pray for us.
However the last book of the Bible does talk about the saints in heaven praying.
Revelation 5:8: Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.
Revelation 8:3-4: He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne. The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel.
The Holy Spirit guided the early Church in many things not explained in the Bible including how does the Body of Christ (believers) on Earth relate to the Body of Christ (saints) in heaven. We are still one Body.
Catholics share the belief in the Communion of Saints with many other Christians, including the Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Episcopal, and Methodist Churches.
The Communion of Saints is the belief where all saints are intimately related in the Body of Christ, a family. When you die and go to heaven, you do not leave this family.
Everyone in heaven or on their way to heaven are saints, you, me, my deceased grandmother, Mary the mother of Jesus, and Mother Teresa.
As part of this family, you may ask your family and friends here on earth to pray for you. Or, you may also ask the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saint Andrew, or your deceased grandmother in heaven to pray for you.
Prayer to saints in heaven is simple communication, not worship.
With love in Christ.
Catholics believe: In the power of the intercessory prayer of the Saints and particularly Mary, who was close to Jesus on earth and still is in Heaven. we ask them to pray for us and with us through Jesus to God our Father.
Rv 5:8; 8:3-4
1 Tim 2:5
1 Tim 2:1-4
(those are some of the passages in the Bible where you can read about intercessory prayers)
Fundamentalists believe: God alone forgives
Catholics believe: Jesus also as the "Son of Man", had the authority to forgive sins and handed this authority down to the apostles and their successors.
Jn 20:21-23
Mt 16:18.19
2 Cor 1:10
(those are some of the passages for confession)
please read some of the passages i posted here.
thank you.
You mentioned that you "can find no passage in the Bible" that advocates confession through a priest...
"Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.
Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful." (Jas. 5: 14-16)
"And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." (2 Cor. 5: 18-20)
The important thing to remember is that the believer confesses to God. The priest is only a screen through which Christ works His redemption. As humans, we all need to hear when we are forgiven.
The authority to this also comes from Jesus:
'Jesus said to them again, 'Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.'
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.'" (John 20: 21-23)
As for the belief in the Communion of Saints, it is fundamentally a believe is Jesus' promise of life. Those who are with God are alive. We talk to those in heaven in this belief.
"â ˜And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said to him, "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob"? He is not God of the dead, but of the living . . .â ™" (Mark 12:26-27)
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely . . ." (Heb. 12:1).
"And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8).
Have you ever asked a friend to pray for in times of trouble or received the reassurance "I'm praying for you."? Since the faithful departed are alive in Christ, as a matter of faith that they can pray for us. We believe that since they are with Christ already that these prayers can be more effective, since most can't pray as they ought.
But the bad thing is that together with the Romans, the pagan practices were also brought into the church, such as the pagan traditions of Christmas celebration which was originally a birthday celebration of the Invinsible Sun God, not the Son of God.
The Passover Feast which is not the original one according to the Bible but the pagan festival called Easter. The other traditions are the worship of the dead saints, which the Bible expressedly say, the death knows nothing and cannot have anything to do with us who are alive.
Ecclesiastes 9:5,6
5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
The pagan Romans with all other nations such as the Greeks, the Babylonians and the Egyptians had always been worhsipping Isis, the Goddess of Fertility, or also referred to as the Queen of Heaven. So it is very covenient to continue the practice by worshipping Mary as the Mother of God, and her son Jesus, which in the ancient pagan nations were worshipped as Isis and Horus. The same in the Chinese Buddhism, Kuan Yin, the goddess of mercy has always been worshipped, and in Indian culture or religion, the statue of the Queen of Heaven carrying her son has always been worshipped.
When Jesus Christ sent the disciples out two by two without money or begging bag or extra clothing, he did this to test them. Jesus prayed for them and every where they went they did what Jesus asked them to do. Heal the sick and cast out demons.
On there return, they the disciples were so overjoyed by there abilities, they all wanted to tell Jesus Christ at once.
Jesus said to them. Who say they that I am? Some said John the baptist, others prophets and the like. But here is wisdom let them that have the Spirit of God take not.
Peter said that you are the Christ, the Son of God, my Lord and my God. Jesus said to Peter, no man has revealed this to you but the Holy Spirit. And upon this rock will I build my Church. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven.
This is where the Catholics get this idea from, wrong that it is. For Jesus meant that those that the Spirit of God has revealed the truth to that Jesus Christ is God this is the rock, that cannot be moved.
As for anyone that passes from this flesh life into the spiritual life can no longer help them they leave behind.><>
Catholics go to confession so they are punished by a priest for sins against God's rules. Catholics can't just pray to God and then carry on with the daily chores. The have to repent.
God only handles the biggy issues, the Saints handle the rest.
Now you know why I'm an Atheist.. I was baptized Catholic..had enough of that.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v1, p. vii)
First we will address the confession issue.
John 20:21-23 states "(Jesus) said to them again, 'Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.' And when He said this, He breathed on them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."
Jesus gives the disciples the authority to forgive, and not to forgive. This means a priest must hear the sins in order to know whether to forgive them or hold them bound. We do confess to God directly in our own prayers, but we also confess through the ministery of the priest because that is what God requires, as taught in Scripture. If you will read 2 Cor 5:17-20 you will see that St. Paul explains how the Apostles are ambassadors of Christ's work of reconciliation. This means that they share in the ministry of Christ and forgive sins in His name. James 5:13-16 tells us that the sins of the sick are forgiven in this sacrament of annointing. He specifies that the presbyters (priests) must be called. They obviously had a power the ordinary Christians didn't have, the power to forgive sins. So we go back to what Jesus said "As the Father sent Me so I send you". The Apostles are to continue the mission of Christ. The mission to forgive sins. Jesus knows our human nature and provides sacramental confession to give us several important gifts: humility, the certainty of forgiveness, spiritual direction and help to overcome self-deception and rationalization in matters of sin.
Now for prayer to saints:
We ask the saints to pray for us in the same way that I may ask you to pray for me. The saints are not dead, they are alive in heaven with God. Mk 12;26-27 states "He is not God of the dead, but of the living." The saints are more alive than we are. They are free from all sin. They enjoy the fillness of God's life-giving presence. Flooded with God's love, they care more about us now than they did on earth. We know that angels and saints place the prayers of the holy ones at God's feet (Rev. 5:8 and Rev 8:3-4), supporting those prayers with their intercessions. The martyrs underneath the heavenly altar cry out for earthly vindication (Rev 6:9-11) showing that they are aware of, and concerned with, earthly affairs.
I hope this helps and I thank you for asking in a kind and open minded manner. There are so many who show such hatred toward the Catholic Church, which I don't understand because we all worship the same God, we just do it a little differently.
God bless,
Stanbo
After Luther reformation, most church believe that Bible is the only authoritative source of Christian teaching. Everything not found in bible is consider un-biblical and deleted from the practice.
A bit different, Catholic believe Bible as well Tradition as source of the teaching. Bible is the written teaching of Jesus, while Tradition is Jesus teaching which preserve in earliest Christian community but not written in any text.
I guess, everything you asked before may derived from tradition of earliest Christian community, It's a 2000yrs old tradition... that's quite impresive... isn't it?
Rom.8:1-4 clearly tell us that God sent His only Son in the likeness of sinful fleshon account of our sin: He condemned sin in the flesh!
By appointing His Apostle Peter as the head of the Church - ie. the body of Christ-, Jesus gives him authority , The Key to the Heaven -that whatever he ninds on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatever he unbinds does the same. So the Church in succession to St. Peter, transfers this autority to remit all sins through the sacrament of reconciliation to the Head of the Church - Pope - until the priests. So the Body of Christ Jesus - The Catholic Church- is taking the sins of the world until Jesus comes back for final judgement. So repent my dear, and get reconciled to God the Father through His Son,- only who has been given authority over the whole creation as the Head of the Church and being a part of His body to take away the sins of the whole world and ask the Holy spirit the cousellor to help the unbelief.
God Bless!
We pray with saints, not to them.
Have you ever asked anyone to pray for you when you were having a hard time? Why did you choose to ask that person?
You may have chosen someone you could trust, or someone who understood your problem, or someone who was close to God. Those are all reasons we ask saints to pray for us in times of trouble.
Since saints led holy lives and are close to God in heaven, we feel that their prayers are particularly effective. Often we ask particular saints to pray for us if we feel they have a particular interest in our problem. For example, many people ask Saint Monica to pray for them if they have trouble with unanswered prayers, because Monica prayed for twenty years for her son to be converted. Finally her prayers were answered in a way she never dreamed of -- her son, Augustine, became a canonized saint and a Doctor of the Church.
but it is clear in the Bible, repenting to others help us to be serious about our sins (as counseling) we need each other as one body.
Jam 5:16 So then, make a statement of your sins to one another, and say prayers for one another so that you may be made well. The prayer of a good man is full of power in its working.
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March 12th, 2010 at March 12, 2010 | | Permalink